Every faction is hugely different (Starcraft (2))
This is the method that has made Starcraft (2) so popular. Every faction units are unique, and there is very little overlap between factions in unit roles. This type requires impetious balance, almost to the 99% balance level for the game to even be playable. However, it makes it so that essentially playing each faction is a different game.
This was also used by Age of Mythology (best RTS before supcom!)
All Factions have similar unit classes (Supreme Commander(2))
This is the type used by CT's Supreme Commander games. Each faction has a certain type of medium tank, missile launcher, etc... They all have unique models and stats, but they fit into a certain groove. For every faction, MML's counter buildings. The cybran ones cost more RP, but are better. Or the Supcom1 style, where Aeon had more frontload, cybran had ******* LAZERS and UEF had brute force. Each faction gets some uniqe units, in the case of Supcom, the experiments. In any case, it leads to less diversity between factions, but is easier to balance.
One branching faction (Age of Empires (I, II, III)
This is the style used by the Empire Earth I and II games, as well as all the Age of Empires. There is one huge tech tree with all units and research on it. There are many (15+) factions, each with unique areas marked off of the research tree that they can not go to. Each one has a unique unit, or research technology. Possibly each one has a unique bonus (ie, tanks take 20% less damage from lazers; buildings have 10% more hitpoints). This system is tried and true, and has the least diversity, but can allow for a very deep game.
So, what do you guys think? Im curious as to what would be the one that is wanted for K&C. And also since we arent getting very many videoblogs these days, it will be something interesting to talk about.|||I kind of like the TA/Supcom style.
Of course, the last time we got medieval, we got Zhon with Hunters.|||I'm not voting, and here is why.
If I HAD to pick one of the options, I'd pick the SupCom/FA options, because it makes sense IMO. All/most of teh superpowers today all have MBTs, but each has differences due to either technology or the belief of what makes the best Tank.
That said, I'd like to see KnC use the SupCom/FA system as a base but branch out more into the unique factions area.
Mike|||The problem is, I like the sound of all of those choices, though I'm somewhat more partial to a mix of the original SupCom balance with a little more starcrafty-ish stuff going on.
But that's just my opinion.|||I think the AoM style would be best. It kind of used two styles, Hugely different across factions, but then with the different major gods made it much like SupCom2 is too. Gave the game a huge amount of replayability and diversity of strategies.
KnC could learn from this i feel...|||Combo of option #1 and #2; similar results to Supcom FA but an even more diverse faction unit base, not more units but different units for different factions, yet having the same tier system/research. Unique units to each faction but with the same broad aspect of training/producing approach.|||AoM factions are not as distant related as in SC; mainly, they had more unique units but also the same units would be juggled around the tech tree from faction to faction (e.g. Egyptian Axeman = Greek Hypasist, but the Greeks don't get the Hypasist until Age 3)
I don't think the SC style would work in this case, and I strongly doubt Taylor will take that path. He has too many factions (5, if I recall) for this to be really feasible to design properly, and the setting does not lend itself well to it.
However, I think an AoM style design where the factions have structural differences and more overtly disparate designs would be for the better.|||In general, I prefer huge scale. For huge scale, (Thinking about total war and supcom), I would generally expect the same units with different stats. At least for the medieval era, like KnC. Faction diversity can be achieved by having the same units with different stats, in a more distinctive way as in supcom 2. In supcom 2, every factions tanks and assault bots are almost the same. Only upgrades make a difference. I would prefer more of a RA3 touch - Every faction has a tank, basic infantry, anti tank infantry etc, but they have different stats, roles, and abilities. Same thing can be done in the medieval era. RA3 is a better example than supcom for this because their units are different from the get-go.
The starcraft model leads to games that are, IMO, not as fun as supcom. This system involves more hard counters, because you dont have a same unit to at least soft counter the opponents units with, albeit slightly ineffective. It becomes a BO poker, and thats not the direction games should go IMO. Instead, I like the supcom 2 model more. Cybran have faster units. Aeon units have better shields/regen (bodaboom / shields or shields / flares). UEF have more firepower or specialisation. But still the units are the same. Cybran bots can raid better, but need brackman backup to engage UEF tanks. UEF in turn can counter cybran assault bots with air, but their bombers are countered by fighter-bombers, so they will also need fighters to fight these. All of the stated units are available from the get go, and everything non-structure, acu, or experimental, can be soft-countered pretty quickly if you know how. Differences in stats lead to 1 unit fulfilling a particular role better than that of the opponents, forcing him to make other units. On grand scale, this leads to diverse armies having multiple unit types, IF BALANCED CORRECTLY.
Mix in some nice formations (not just formations that look nice, but maybe also something functional - Testudo, Phalanx, Shield wall, Schiltrom, Box, Wedge - that function in some significant way, apart from looking nice. This can be done by affecting morale (total war), unit stats (BFME), or giving them other effects, like damage on front for phalanx or resistence vs arrows for testudo. These formations can be faction specific, or better for specific factions due to better formation bonuses or different unit stats for the units using them.
This is pretty much how all strategy games should be made =)
- Mix RA3 unit diversity (maybe a bit less on the special abilities), total war formations, and supcom scale..|||Personally i think a basic set of units for every faction is a good way to start. After that, you can research your special units in a unique Faction-tech-tree.
These can bring a lot of diversity into a game. Unless you have it flooded with standard upgrades a la 20% more/less HP/Damage/cost/enduring/hurfdurf
And tbh i would love to see multiple Tech-trees for every faction, everyone with a clear focus on a different aspect. This would be verry supportive for additional Teamplay in 2v2/3v3/4v4|||Having a completely unique unit set makes the game needlessly complicated. Supcom has the right idea, but I wouldn't be put off if they made the units slightly more diverse. One request I make though is that range should never be something that differs between the factions. Fatboy > megalith > urch is a prime example of how messing with range has given one faction a clear edge over the others.|||Range will be a great deal less important, I think. Kiting will be non-existant.
1) Very few units will use ranged attacks, most units will be melee.
2) Very few units will FotM (Fire on the Move), possibly mages and horse archers/centaurs etc, but the majority of ranged units will have to be stationary to fire.
This is assuming that gpg don't make archers pin-point accurate, FotMing at sprint speed with rapid rate of fire in the name of "balance".
On faction diversity:
Whatever really, AoE:2 and Starcraft style faction diversity both work really well. I don't really think that it matters to much, though merging the different tech-trees per faction and the AoM method would be the preffered option. That is to say that before the game you pick the faction and the monarch (your specific leader) and then within the game you can focus down one tech Doctrine (ala Warrior Kings / CoH's doctrines) which has slight modifications based on your general. Changes could be tech/unit/ability/buff replacements/additions.
For Example:
Faction :: Monarch :: Doctrine
Empire :: Merchant Prince :: I will weather this storm (Defence)
Ancient :: Runeseer :: I am the ancient rites resplendant (Magic/Summoning)
Vampire :: Lady of the Red :: Your blood will sate Me!(Attack)
-The Faction dictates the basic units/abilities/structures.
-The Monarch dictates the advanced units/techs/abilities.
-The Doctrine dictates the unique units/abilties/techs you get.
Everyone playing the Empire gets swordsmen.
Everyone playing Empire Merchants get Mercenaries. They also get to give (via techs from being a merchant) swordsmen loot abilities.
Everyone playing Defensive Empire Merchants get Shieldbearer/Heavy Pike Mercenaries. They also get to give (via techs from being a defensive merchant) swordsmen and mercenaries cheap armour or city-tithes to peasants (wall cost decreased depending on the number of workers you have, more is better).|||Again, everything firing while moving is a CT RTS staple.
Don't expect things except siege weapons to only fire while stationary.|||archers vs heavy infantry... cavalry archers... mages... maybe flying units... kiting opportunities-a-plenty. Please balance them.|||Xagar
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